RE: Mig-25 vs SR-71
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RE: Mig-25 vs SR-71
Monday, December 8, 2003 (8:44 AM)

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Posted by
Thewhat (1)
Edit
RE: Mig-25 vs SR-71
The mig's actual sustained flight cruising speed was somewhere in the area of mach 2.8. The blackbird was in the area of 3.3. There have been reports of the Mig exceeding mach 3.o but not for any sustained amounts of time. Same can be said for the blackbird, 3.3 sustained flight, upwards of 3.5-3.6. Some people have reporting almost touching 4(which has no proof). The ceiling ability of the blackbird is considerably higher. Essentially, if the blackbird ever had a "close call" with a mig.it would simply have to accelerate and get alittle closer to "space". If the mig ever had a chance we woulda lost a blackbird in the cold war.

Posted by
doron (11)
Edit
RE: RE: Mig-25 vs SR-71
Posted: December 8, 2003 (9:25 AM)
Yeah I would agree if not for one simple fact. In 1975 MiG-25 was brought to Japan by one of the defectors from Soviet Union. The main issues with MiG-25 were the selling and the speed.
American specialists were digging into Foxbat for a year or so. I haven't heard of test flights but the max. selling was something unheard of before. I am not a specialist but I am selling what I have heard.

As for speeds - which incident you are referring to? I mean it is still unknown what is max speed for MiG-25. Whoever tells you he or she knows - must be either a member of Mikoyan and Gurevitch Design Bureau or a Russian test pilot. Otherwise they just talking.

MiG-25 was never designed to be a SR-71 interceptor (it is easier done by a ground to air missiles). It was rather the reconnaissance aircraft.


Posted by
Wingnut (2)
Edit
RE: RE: Mig-25 vs SR-71
Posted: December 10, 2003 (11:21 AM)
When you say that the Mig-25 i designed for reconnaissance your only half right. the foxbat was also designed as an high altitude interceptor and served in this role until relived of the Mig-31 (foxhound) therefore i where to counter both the SR-71 and the U2 but never sucselfully did this. For more information of the Mig-25 and other planes look at:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/index.html

Posted by
doron (11)
Edit
RE: Mig-25 vs SR-71
Posted: December 10, 2003 (7:25 PM)
Well, you probably right. But for intercepting a high altitude planes Soviet Union developed better things called missiles.

They proved to be very deadly by shooting down U-2. From the beginning anti-aircraft missiles were more than capable to shot down anything at any altitude.

So even if MiG-25 was designed as an interceptor - designers kept in-mind that it will not be as capable as SAMs.


Posted by
Wynter (3)
Edit
RE: RE: Mig-25 vs SR-71
Posted: December 12, 2003 (1:10 AM)
The MIG 25 was orignally designed to stop the americans Valkyrie bomber project (later canceled) . but the USSR kept the 25 project alive . thank god (otherwise we wouldnt have so many of our beloved airframes)

Posted by
Pixel (12)
Edit
RE: RE: Mig-25 vs SR-71
Posted: December 15, 2003 (00:22 AM)
Other overlooked facts were that the Foxbat`s top speeds were attained only for small amounts of time, that engine repairs where needed after a hard afterburner session with the Mig-25!
In other words, it couldn't serve as an effective SR-71 stopper.

Is correct the afirmation that the main role for the Mig-25 was to counter the "Valkyrie" B-70 treat. Once the B-70 project was canceled, the main reason for the Foxbat construction was gone, so, other alternatives for the Mig`s role were looked by the Soviets, among them, long bomber interception.

As far as I knew, no SR-71's were ever treaten by Mig 25's! As for the SAM treat being effective to counter American spy planes like the U-2 or SR-71, they were also false. The most publicited event where the SAM's were used (the downing of Gary Power's U-2 during the 60's inside the Soviet Union), was achieved by a lucky shot only after many SAM's were fired at the U-2 wich at the moment was many hours in to the flight inside the Soviet Union.

More over, the shooting was disorganized and caothic, the U-2 din't received a direct hit, just a lucky salvo that happened to explode close enough to destroy the airplane. So disorganize and poor acurate was the shooting, that a couple of pursuing Soviet fighters were also shot out of the sky by their own SAM misiles before they manage to shot the U-2.

So, the suposely SAM deterrence against American spy planes were somewhat vague. For the americans the downing of the U-2 was so terrible, that forced the introducction of the SR-71, but in reality the U-2 could have fly for many more years with out danger, it was Gary Power's mistake by flying the plane at lower altitud that risked the operation, and not because the U-2 wasn't up to the task.

SAMs are fired at almost the same cruising speed of the SR-71 (about Mach 3), so when a SAM was fire into a passing SR-71 at very high altitud, this only could reach the wake of the Blackbird a mile or so back!


Posted by
doron (11)
Edit
RE: RE: Mig-25 vs SR-71
Posted: December 15, 2003 (9:35 AM)
Well, there are a few things to add to the Gary Power's U-2 story.
First he was downed on May 1, 1960. That's one of the biggest Holidays in USSR/Russia. Aftermath of Stalin's repression's and all military generals were scared of doing something that may get their carrier or life ended.
The reason U-2 got so far was miscommunications between hierarchy of the Soviet military, not the SAMs' missing the target.

U-2 was shot down by S-75 SAM. S-75 does not have to hit a target directly (as well as many other Soviet SAMs). It has a proximity fuse and SAM explodes within half a mile from the target on purpose. If friendly aircraft happened to be in the same area with the target - it will suffer too.
Mach 3 is not the speed of SAMs. It's more like Mach 5++.

All I can say is when SR-71 was taking-off from Norway, SAM operators as far as Moscow knew not only about it but also knew which SR-71 just took-off. There are a few flight patterns for SR-71 that are not detectable for SAM operators and that's where MiG-25 reconnaissance (not interceptor) features kick-in.

There were three circles of SAM defense around Moscow and they were working together with air reconnaissance (although they missed Cessna-172 landing on the Red Square) as well as all other anti-aircraft defense formations in former USSR. It was never perfect but it worked (sometimes).

To change the air defense situation S-300 and later S-400 SAM complexes were introduced.
Please keep-in-mind - all exported S-300 and S-400 SAM complexes have lowered capabilities compared to the Russian versions so we do not know much about their performance.

All I wanted to say is that I am glad we have never seen SR-71 and MiG-25 in a real fight. Let's keep it the way it is.


Posted by
davinchi (2)
Edit
RE: RE: Mig-25 vs SR-71
Posted: January 4, 2004 (1:51 PM)
The MiG - 25 beautifully has finished the career - in 1986 by a new rocket R-33 an MiG - 25 the scout SR-71, broken has brought down American air border of polar possession USSR. It is necessary to tell, that SR-71 - the not ordinary plane. First American "invisible", superhigh-altitude, with two by most powerful by engines developed speed up to M3,7;and � From direct hit of a rocket the case has collapsed completely, the fragments have fallen on ice, and, already after ten hours, the helicopters Mi-26 carried to our airdesigners a most valuable material - engines and fragments of the special plating " invisible " of the plane.

It`s translated from: http://skyfireavia.narod.ru/planes/mig25/mig25.htm


Posted by
hello (109)
Edit
RE: Mig-25 vs SR-71
Posted: February 3, 2004 (3:53 AM)
Hey guys and gals!
Davinchi, I do not know if you speak Russian or not but whoever wrote the article you are mentioning - do not have a clue about aviation nor ZRK.
You missed a small detail in translation: U-2 was shot down on May 1, 1960, not SR-71.

To add my notes. SR-71 was never stealth and probably never will be.
MiG-25 reminds me a RA-5C Vigilante, although Vigilante was never as fast as MiG-25 but it came out 6 years earlier.

Who copied who, why aircraft was built � it�s all speculations, not the exact science.

As for MiG-25 small amounts of fast speed - I agree, it was unable to sustain M3 for as long as SR-71 but not because of the engines short life.
MiG-25 still kicks SR-71's ass on a short run (about 20 minutes or until it runs out of kerosene).

To SR-71 credit - it was never shot down even though it was shot at many times. There were situations when missiles just were out of "gas" following SR-71.

Pixel, did you overhaul MiG-25 engines yourself after the "hard afterburner session"? If you did - then we'd love to hear your story. If not - then say so and do not repeat somebody else's story that is not true.

Yeah, Thewhat - there were reports of MiG-25 going M3.8++ and ceiling ability of MiG-25 are just as good as SR-71. World ceiling record held by MiG-25 (123,524 ft or 37,650 m), not SR-71.

Just a notes.


Posted by
davinchi (2)
Edit
RE: RE: Mig-25 vs SR-71
Posted: February 4, 2004 (7:45 AM)
U-2 was downed not in Air-to-Air�

Actually Soviet pilots forced down more planes of the opponent above USSR more and than once. In the given statistics some planes were downed above East Germany, but in the majority above USSR.

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_301.shtml

http://home.sprynet.com/~anneled/ColdWar.html

MIG-25 FOXBAT many times intercepted a SR-71 near air border USSR, and the pilots of SR-71 were compelled to break prospecting missions.

The translation was exact.


Posted by
Garfield (1)
Edit
RE: RE: Mig-25 vs SR-71
Posted: August 11, 2004 (2:52 PM)
While intercepting high flying planes might have been one of the purposes for which the Mig 25 was built, it was not the only one. Actually, the Mig 25 could be used as a Ballistic Missile defense system. After attaining maximum horizontal velocity the plane would climb vertically until it reached its ceiling around 100,000 ft. At that point it could fire a radar or infra red guided missile at an CBM entering the Earth's stratosphere. Good planning and a sufficient number of these planes could actually down quite a few incoming intercontinental missiles.

In Bulgaria, a few Mig 25s were used in the defense of the capital Sofia. From an airport in the surrounding mountains, a Mig 25 could take off and attain an altitude of 30,000 ft in less than 5 minutes and be ready to intercept any incoming enemy aircraft.

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