nightmare of USSR
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nightmare of USSR
Saturday, September 18, 2004 (11:06 PM)

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Posted by
WenASe (68)
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nightmare of USSR
I personally think that former Soviet President Michil Gorbachev was the stupidest leader among the former Soviet President. He was fully responsible for causing Soviet broken. I strongly suspect that he wanted to become a slave of the United States.

It is very sorry to see the collapse of Soviet Union because the world should be multi-polar. What do you think of it?


Posted by
anticommi (33)
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RE: nightmare of USSR
Posted: September 19, 2004 (9:30 AM)
Well guys, before it gets out of hands I thought I'll spill my thoughts on the issue.

Yes, I agree - Communism is the best regime you could imagine but so is the fairytale!
Who lived in Communism? The same people who lives in fairytales!

We live in a real world and Communism will be possible when fairytales will become a reality.
When people get rid of love and passion, greed and differences between us - we will be all in the army called Communism. Roger Waters beautifully described it in "The Wall".
Before that - look at any Country where people who doesn't produce gets Government welfare and you will see where it all leads.

It doesn't mean that Capitalism is right or wrong. There is always something that'll screw-up the best idea. Weather it's a person with greatest ambitions and most money or a simple idiot with power of pressing the red button. There is always something.
But I agree, there should always be a polarity. The question is: "At which pole you'd rather be?"

As for Gorbatchev - he is just a person who can not add two plus two, never mind seing what's gonna happened Tomorrow. But so is Mr. Bush Jr.

That's just my thoughts.


Posted by
anticommi (33)
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RE: nightmare of USSR
Posted: September 20, 2004 (9:50 AM)
Have you lived in Socialism? It may give you some idea why do you have to hide your feelings.
About someone taking advantage of their position - you don't have to have any doubts. There always will be someone for that purpose.
As for the future when people will be more intelligent or start understanding - I have my doubts.
I didn't even mention religion - where did it come from?
Besides the religion - look at your neighbor. Are you the same? All people are different. That's what makes us human. It's not that one is better than another. We think different and it's called an opinion. We look different - that's why we have passport photos taken.
Whoever tells us otherwise - is a lier. So think about it, Enjoy it while you can.

Having this conversation is another proof that we are different. We allowed to have different opinions and our opinions are different.
In Communism - all we have to do is read the manual and here we are - we have an opinion written for us.

If you will live in Communism - you will be like everyone else. Can you imagine - take what you need, give what you could! Is there such a thing in the world?
Ask Bill Gates to give what he could and take only what he need! The whole world will be empty after that!
Use your imagination. Think.

Those two idiots Marks and Engels were sitting around and thinking about possibilities. One had everything and the other had nothing but thoughts. Were they right?

In Communism you don't raise your kids. System will do it for you. Read 1984 book. You gonna like it.
Country that came closest to Communism was Nazi Germany. All over sudden they became the only true Nation in the World! Read about them and you gonna like it even better. People were working, Country was getting reacher and they were actually one of the strongest Country at the time (1930's).
They only made one mistake - took on USSR. Apparently they didn't read the history and paid for it big time. USSR was a bit bigger than they were able to swallow and choked on it.
If not for USSR back then - we had a pretty good chance to have German language as the only language in the World.

For some reason people disregard the history. Communism was in Roman Empire, during the Egyptian Pyramids time - two periods that came to mind. History goes in spirals and something that we consider new - actually long forgotten old thing. Nothing new in this World.


Posted by
anticommi (33)
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RE: nightmare of USSR
Posted: September 21, 2004 (12:59 PM)
Well, time will show who's right.
I know one thing, people (no matter where, when and why) understand two things: power (force that make them do something) and to be paid (whatever it is money, product or satisfaction).
Those two things were invented before humans were around and that's the main law of the world of physics, economy and people relationships.

If one is not in balance with the other - there will be a movement towards the empty space (or a lower pressure in physics).
Many people tried to change that and never succeeded. Vacuum is always filled with something.
Communism theory has many "vacuum" points and many of them created artificially by a greedy management etc. Communism rely on responsible people and therefore computers not needed there to control the society.

Communism is a basic form of society that started human community. It could exist in a village or a very very small town where people know each-other personally.
When boundaries grow - the whole system fail. There will be always someone who would want to take on the other in a nearby town, country, continent.

I personally do not see any society getting more educated. In fact education level falls dramatically in years. For example kids in US school know more about condoms than mathematics nowdays.
Media lies more than it should. Specialist hired by the media sometimes do not have a clue what are they talking about. Do you feel that it is possible to rely on human honesty in society like that?

Yes, Nazi Germany had a Communism Society as a basis and share more features with Communism than any other society.
In Communism government left pretty much unchecked by anybody and controls everything. That is not right. It protects only itself no matter what.
There is no middle class people in Communism, only elite and the bottom. That is not right either. They say all people are equal while it is not possible in any society. People are born differently, raised different and have different ability to learn things. We are all different and have never been the same. Until we honestly say that in the open - our society will never make a leap into the future.
Even ants who came closest to a Communism society, while they look similar are different.

I am judging by what I see not what I read. There are honest mistakes and plain stupidity in the world. It looks like there are more and more stupid mistakes are made and all we hear as a result: "I am sorry.".
If you ask me - I do not want to hear that answer. I wish it could be changed but I assume it will not happened in my lifetime.


Posted by
anticommi (33)
Edit
RE: nightmare of USSR
Posted: September 22, 2004 (9:30 AM)
Man, you are delusional! Sorry, I didn't mean anything bad by that.

> There are some people like me that are willing to give up power for all equality, because they won't lose anything, and all the poor people will be valued as much as the rich.

Only people who have nothing to lose will give up anything and that's what happened in Great October Socialist Revolution in 1917

> Computers can help communism society, with organization of digital data about the person, and many other things.

Yeah, especially if programs written by people who has nothing we could go far far ahead on this. I'd love to see this data and if it will be restricted or not for everybody.

> A communism can exist even in a big city, when all the people will realize that they live in communism, no one will want to quit living in that kind of regime. The fate of communism is to close boundaries, therefore, no boundaries can be opened. As I said, communism can only exist if all the people believe in it (not in our times).

People are always wondering if there is a place better than where they are right now. It's a human nature and if there is a place other than Communism - there will be defectors like it was in USSR.

> In a society like communism, media will tell the truth, because people know that this is best for everyone to know truth, cause if people tell only lies, comes the corruption, and everyone knows that corruption is not good. People will be one class (remember?), therefore, it will be no worth for media to lie to the people, it will be like lie to themselves.

Right, we have seen it somewhere before, where was that?

> There is no elite and bottom in communism, only one class - the worker class, unlike you said. That is why Nazism is so different from communism. Real communism is not dictatorship, - remember this.

Oh yes it is! Life is a dictatorship when you don't like something and have to do it anyway and there will be plenty of things you gotta do in communism as go to a communist meetings, become a member of the only party, you name it.
Also, you are telling me that workers will design the buildings etc.? I wonder how long they gonna stand and how media will cover the wreckage after the building collapse?
If engineers will be designing them - there we are, we have different classes of people. No matter how you slice it - people will be divided by classes of something - work, profession, education etc. This will always create the different points of view, opinions and group of people in a society!
Society must have classes of members responsible for different things. Erase classes and you'll get a chaos, put classes back and you erase Communism. Take a pick.
As any society communism has to have structure as government, implementing structure (lawmakers, judges, verification that laws are working) punishment structure in case something goes wrong (and there will be plenty of things to go wrong).
Reality sucks, I know and it's not gonna get any better in the future.

> Yes, too many mistakes that can be fixed. The only mistakes that cannot be fixed are mistakes of life and death!
Communists tried to fix that: "Lenin lived, Lenin live, Lenin always will live". Where is Lenin now?

> In many years, after the communism will come, there will be no more mistakes, I am sure about that.
Except one mistake - a Communism!

I'd rather make a buck and spend it on my family the way I like it, not the way my Government tells me how should I spend it!
That's my choice and I vote for that!


Posted by
Vijaypal_S (1)
Edit
RE: nightmare of USSR
Posted: March 3, 2005 (3:01 AM)
gentlemen!

i dont blame gorbachev for being responsible in the fall of ussr. i dont think he wanted to be a slave to the usa as well. personally i feel, ussr was doomed due to its good relations with the iraqi dictator saddam hussein. the soviet union's quest for power was so much that they ended up spending most of their country's gdp on warfare and war technology. we all know that soviet did not have much infrastructure to boast about, though their weapons are still considered to be at par with the ones possessed by usa. when sanctions were imposed on saddam hussein, soviet could no longer acquire oil from iraq, thus gorbachev took the firm step of breaking up the soviet regime and opening its economy to the world. if you really do believe it, vcr's came to soviet union in 1988! kids didnt have any good toys to play with. and when the union broke, the people did have money but they didnt have any food to eat.

i strongly agree that communism is definitely very good. but to get the most out of it you need not just 100% but 200% honesty amongst people. everyone has to be a saint to practise communism. if 10 people get the same salary for the same work of sitting on a desk doing paperwork, all the 10 people are supposed to do it dilligently. otherwise they would sit all day waiting for the end of the month to get their salary, because they know, even if they dont work, they will get their salary.

i feel if soviet union hadnt split up, there would have been no soviet union, no warsaw pact countries and there would have been no usa and no nato countries, the world was fearing a world war 3 with usa and soviet trying to win the arms race and quest for influence.

we know about vietnam invaded by americans followed by soviets to gain a stronghold on asia, we know about afganistan invaded by soviets followed by americans, in the end the losers were vietnam and afganistan. india itself was robbed away to glory by brits (we indians still dont have the diamond which the brits stole from our country's old kings!). the africans are still being treated as slaves in their own homeland africa. i guess in the end it would have really become true that the planet would probably have been ruled by apes.

whatever happens does happen for the better, ive seen russia in 2000 and i had been there in 1988 when i was a 8 year old kid, i realise now why i decided to give my most prized toys to the little moscow kid who's house we were staying in.

God bless all
Vijay Pal Singh.

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