f-22 vs su-37
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f-22 vs su-37
Thursday, January 27, 2005 (9:04 PM)

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Posted by
yzad100 (1)
Edit
f-22 vs su-37
altho the su-37 is an awesome lookin aircraft, the american engineering and design that went into the F/A-22 will make it the #1 aircraft at this time. the F/A-22 is stealth(for these slow russians it means it cant b seen in radar)so the SU-37 cant shoot a missle at it anyway. u people need tp think about stuff before u type it.

Posted by
hello (109)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: January 27, 2005 (9:39 PM)
For what it worth "yzad" here is some guidelines:

There is no Su-37 left in the World. It's gone, please make a note of it and if you could - do not refer to it again as to the live or production aircraft.

There is no stealth - have been proven many times over and over. All US bombers (F-117, B-2 and I am sure the future ones) are clearly visible to Russian and Czechoslovakian (Tesla) made radars.

Sukhoi fighters could employ stealth by stopping in the air - that's just as far as stealth goes.

Su-27 and MiG-29 families aircraft outmaneuvers any modern US aircraft at least three times. If you'd like to say there will be no dog-fight in the future - I hope not but we'll have to to see.

Sukhoi fighters successfully penetrated Kitty-Hawk's defense, won the Indian training (9:1) and God knows what else they could do.

So, I feel really bad paying for the US fighter development as a taxpayer so far as we are producing last generation fighters relying on technology that exist somewhere else, not in a real World.


Posted by
hello (109)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: January 28, 2005 (2:40 AM)
May I ask you what is stealth and what is "stealth technology" based upon?

Posted by
hello (109)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: January 28, 2005 (8:56 AM)
It may be one day become a reality but as long as planes flying in the air they do create vortex.
Shape of "stealth" aircraft creates even more vortex as they are "aerodynamical mistakes".
Modern radars could trace the bullet trajectory, never mind the aircraft.
While aircraft standing still - many radars would give-up finding it and precisely the missile radars. So it is very much debatable weather "stealth" exist or not.

From what I can see - there is no stealth so far on either side of the pond.


Posted by
Sukhoy (488)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: January 28, 2005 (11:57 AM)
Hello, you says Su-37 doesn't more exist. Ok, but what kind of differences are between Su-37 and Su-35?
I know there are minors differences, no?

Posted by
hello (109)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: January 29, 2005 (2:10 AM)
Well,
Su-37 (assigned number 711) was created as a test platform to see how much would thrust-vectoring effect (increase) maneuverability.
It was flown from Zhukovsky Airbase. Basically Su-37 was looking very close to Su-35.
Thrust vectoring I would imagine required a bit different flight software.

After tests were conducted engines without thrust vectoring were installed and the whole airframe was tested again.

Then results were compared and the difference was studied. Result was: thrust vectoring did have positive results but maintenance was overwhelming and it was decided not to use it in production models.

In 2002, or was it 2003 Su-37 was crashed on a test flight being flown from Zhukovsky airbase.
If I remember correctly - the stabilizer fall-off. Pilot ejected and got stuck on the tree. He broke the leg falling from the tree.


Posted by
Sukhoy (488)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: January 29, 2005 (6:58 AM)
So, you are going to say that thrust vector control is not in production?
I don't think so, look India, buy TVC engines for Su-30, and I konw su-35 use TVC (Russia has about 20-30 in service and will grow in future).

I think there is some differences in range (Su-35 have longer range) and missiles supports (su-37 supports more type).


Posted by
Sukhoy (488)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: January 29, 2005 (9:16 AM)
And Su-27SM is not Su-35?

Posted by
hello (109)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: January 30, 2005 (4:29 AM)
Guys, I am not suggesting anything. I am just stating what I know the first had about Su-37.
Yes, Su-37 is not in production and probably won't be in the future.
Yes, thrust vectoring didn't play well on Su-37 (at least it was not cost effective)
As for production of thrust-vectored engines and their future - I don't know what would happened.

Posted by
Sukhoy (488)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: January 30, 2005 (4:40 AM)
So, Su-35 is with only 2D TVC, OK, thnks

I think in future there will be no more any aircraft without TVC

F-22 has 2D TVC. On F-15 had been tested TVC but americans are behind russians in this aspect (and in many other 8-) ).
Maybe TVC is now to expensive but without.

Differences between 2D and 3D are major in aircraft's sharpness?


Posted by
hello (109)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: January 30, 2005 (5:11 AM)
Yes, I'd say the difference between 2D, 3D and NoD is tremendous for the ground crew of a combat aircraft.
Basically that what's leading to 8.5 hours of maintenance for Apache heli for every hour in the air.
The name of the game for the battle aircraft in production is simple maintenance and cost of operations. Make it too complicated and it won't fly at all.

Why thrust vectoring was ruled as not cost effective on Su-37?

We have to look at the design features of Su-27 family aircraft. Basically they all have one shared feature - they all aft CG aircraft which makes any plane unstable.
Sukhoi bureau made the aircraft controlled by fly-by-wire where computers hold all surfaces in-check. That's another reason control surfaces has to be big enough so they could have more power than rear CG moments. The whole aerodynamical focus of the aircraft moved aft.

Now, when pilot needs to do the a vertical maneuver (in aircraft axis) - controls are slightly moved in that direction and then all controls are holding aircraft in opposite direction to compensate the moments created by the aft focus.
In fact controls fighting the aircraft from going further of initial direction. That's the secret of super maneuverability here. And that's the reason thrust-vectoring didn't produce much of a difference on Su-37.
Look at the pictures of Su-27 family aircraft in the air. Doesn't controls look odd? Aircraft on high angles of attack while all controls dictating that aircraft is in normal or negative angles.
Look at F-16 or F-18 pulling from the loop and Su-35 coming out of the same thing! See the difference?

I saw old fellow pilots at MAKS-es in Moscow crying - "They can't fly like that! It's impossible!"

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