f-22 vs su-37
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f-22 vs su-37
Thursday, January 27, 2005 (9:04 PM)

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Posted by
Sukhoy (488)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: March 4, 2006 (8:41 PM)
Russia made all the time cheaper things but fery good ones.

I think not only in military aspect but in space. Now SUA use 60's
tech from Russia to visit ISS to bad for NASA!
Too, for aircraft: Russia use TVC for a decade, SUA? since december
2005. Russia develop tech for missiles with greater range (Ks-172),
SUA?
SUA drop from service F-14, MiG-31 is the best interceptor in the
world still. It can shoot down even ICBM. It can see stealth
aircraft,
and with its Zaslon, MiG-31BM variant can see F-22 from longer
distance than F-22's missiles can track MiG.
Again Russia give lessons to SUA in BVR.


Posted by
Sukhoy (488)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: March 4, 2006 (9:00 PM)
Sorry, JSF_fan, but is my opinion, stealth tech is not working against modern weapon. SR-71 was stealth even for MiG-25 I heard. But for Su-27 wasn't. Russia now know what tech is used on american planes. U-2 same. You must accept there are radar that can track stealth planes. No one are invisible. Russia didn't put accent on stealth aspect so much. For USA are important even for public opinion. 2 different strategies.

Posted by
wingman (1)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: April 5, 2006 (5:56 PM)
in long range combat W/ high-tech missles, the f-22 would win, but in an actual dogfight, the su-37 would rip the f-22 apart hands down, in dogfighting, manuverability is key, fifty missles doesnt make a difference ifthe plane cant get a bead on the other aircraft, in dogfighting, the su-37 would only use guns and win, if you do a video on the su-37, you would be suprised, even american engineers are trying to find out how any russain aircraft does what it can do.

Posted by
Sukhoy (488)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: April 5, 2006 (6:47 PM)
One of test pilot of Su-37 ask a fight one to one over Atlantic against any other aircraft. Nobody answer. Where was F-15, F-16,F-18, Typhoon, Gripen, Mirage, Harrier, F-22, F-23, F-35? Right, was some years ago.

Su-34 entered in production and had RCS like a missile at low flight, but maneuverability don't suffer. Maybe use plasma generator from Keldish NIT.
I want to see if USA will atack Iran. Will be many losses for NATO, I think.


Posted by
Afterburned (1)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: June 26, 2006 (11:25 AM)
Its funny how this thread turned ito a flaming argument. I'm no pilot but I am studying for aerospace engineering so you could say that I have a clue of what I am talking about. First of all This whole argument is stupid because the two aircraft in question were built for completely different roles. While the Su 27+ family shows amazing manuvering abilities and dogfight potential, the f22 is designed to avoid dogfights by using its speed and stealth to start AND end a conflict before detection. Those of you who think stealth is not a factor may have a problem explaining how 2 f22's recently downed 8 f15's in a mock battle without ever being detected. if i am correct the f15 has comparable radar capabilities of the su's? Match the stealthy features with a targeting radar that uses 10 variable frequencies and uve got a sneaky little pain in the ass. If the situation actually came down to a dogfight. i think that this should be the title of this thread. The su37 is amazing. with half a fuel load and no armament. If the russians really want to scare anyone they should fly with missiles and drop tanks instead of an angry paint scheme. Comparably the f-22's thrust to weight ratio is greater than one with a full combat load, match this with ur almighty TV and a rediculously large wing area and uve got a more than capabe dogfighter. I dont even want to get into the avionics dispute the f22 is expensive for a reason. Another thing, when will a dogfight ever take place with ~0 airspeed. ur backflipping su37 would be a sitting duck in any conftontation with 1 opponents. Botton line= the russians are better off working with us than against us.

Posted by
Sukhoy (488)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: June 26, 2006 (11:48 AM)
Su-37 can be used in dogfight even with up to 8 tones of missiles. It was done that at one the airshow, when like you, western media ask about maneuverability with missiles.

But it is not fair to compare Su-37 vs. F-22. Is the same thing like comparing Su-27 family vs F-4.

Su-37 was made to test new tech in new versatil movement.


Posted by
CSVT (1)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: July 3, 2006 (4:49 PM)
The Su-37 cannot carry 8 tons of missiles. Maybe ordanance but not missiles. If you could give me a link with a video of the Su-37 doing an airshow with a full loadout then I might be convinced. Even if it could, it would not be that agile and it's thrust to weight ratio would most definately be compromised. Don't forget about the large fuel load that the Flanker carries which would add even more weight.

That's another main advantage of the F-22. It remains aerodynamically clean in almost all combat profiles.


Posted by
Sukhoy (488)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: July 3, 2006 (5:09 PM)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-37 - 8,2 tonnes.

Right, its agility will suffer. But it can do a cobra maneuver and will not tear its wings link western media said, that I read in the past.

F-22 and any other fighter will suffer in agility due to load (weapons or/and fuel).


Posted by
GenFreebie (4)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: July 4, 2006 (3:14 AM)
A lot of you keep on making some quite interesting assumptions here. For example you're assuming that Russian aircraft are only good in dogfights and that Su radars have similar capabilities to F-15's. Here is some corrected info on both accounts:

The Mig-31 had the most advanced radar in the world from its introduction in service in 1975 to 2005 when the F-22A's AESA radar took the cake. The Mig-31's radar is STILL the longest range radar but cannot handle as many simultaneous tasks and doesn't have as low a probability of intercept. The USA did not even come close to comparison with the Phased Array radar of the Mig-31 until it equipped F-22's with AESA radars.

Modern Su's use Phased Array radars comparative in range to AESA radars . but of course comparative in technology to the Mig-31's radar. This includes the Su-27M, Su-35, Su-37 and Su-30MK series among others. These radars are far more advanced then anything else fielded in the USA asides from the F-22 radar. They can track and fire at multiple targets, have a low probability of intercept and have a passive mode which allows them to detect aircraft without even emitting a search beam.

This is a large part of their natural advantage in BVR combat. Their radar means they are likely to detect the opponent first and get the jump on them (when applied to an aircraft like the F-15). The F-15 will likely only be aware of missiles homing at the final stages of their attack (last 10km).

Onto missiles, the other major factor in BVR combat. The R-77, R-77m and R-77pv are at least equal in performance to the US AMRAAM-C. The M and PV variants outrange the AMRAAM-C and all 3 variants are more maneouverable, while possibly suffering a higher drag penalty when turning. So in effect Russia is equal or ahead of the USA in missile technology. This is of course ignoring US missiles that are not in service.

As for WVR combat . the Su-27's gun was not designed to be its principle weapon in a dogfight. The R-73 missile on its inception was 20 years ahead of any dogfighting missile the West had produced. Its abilities are as follows:
-it is aimed using a helmet mounted sight
-it can be fired at any target up to 60 degrees in front and behind the aircraft
-it is considered impossible to evade
This is the reason why the Russians were happy to design aircraft that could sacrifice massive amounts of inertia for an angle of attack. In modern WVR combat those who get the first shot off win 99% of the time. Therefore, while a US aircraft prior to the F-22A has to get behind its opponent to get a lock the Su-27 and Mig-29 series can fire at anything they can look at. Using their maneouvreability they can turn much more rapidly then their opponents and even fire at a chasing opponent before the tail gets a lock.

As for a comparison between the F-22A and the F-15 . most of the reason for the sheer cost of the F-22A, asides from the bloated US arms industry is the amount of catching up they had to do. Additionally they could not justify an Su-27 competitor so they essentially had to build a better aircraft. The way they achieve this is through only 3 factors:
-low observable technology
-AESA radar
-Super Cruise

On all other aspects they come close to the Su-27 series or equal it. In WVR the Su-27 series can still fire first in the majority of circumstances but BVR is much more likely. In this instance the Su-27 series can only 'return fire' in most instances as the F-22A should theoretically be able to remain hidden until it chooses to fire. That said, there is every chance the Russian radar is capable enough to detect the presence of an AESA and even the location of it. That is essentially a guessing game that even the Russians and US are playing.

So yeah . the F-22A is great but a highly upgraded Su-27 series aircraft is 2nd best in the world and therefore not that far behind. In a pure one on one engagement with no external support for either side the F-22A would probably come out on top 80% of the time. However, unlike with the F-15 which lost dismally 8-1 a 2-1 engagement would mean a 40% chance of a win for the F-22A, a dramatic reduction from the one on one engagement.

So process all this information and then think about the economic factors involved. A late model Su-30MKI, the best Su-27 series aircraft in service today, costs $35 million and an F-22A is now costing over $400 million after yet another price inflation. China, which is buying an aircraft similar to the Su-30MKI (Su-30MKK) has a large defence acquisitions budget and is essentially getting a capability that will work against the USA's last Air Force gamble.

Yeah . the F-22A's the better aircraft but if it were to come to a major war between the big players in 10 years time it would be hopelessly outnumbered and outgunned.


Posted by
MiG35mki (9)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: September 11, 2006 (6:32 AM)
please make it clear that which all sukhois have TVC,
i know the Su-30mki has them, coz we got them.
i saw Su-35 use TVC, in its videos and promos
MiG-29ovt and MiG-35(ovt + canards) has a silghtly better TVC than the sukhois.

wht abt su-33? su-30mk/mkk?
what abt su-34 (striker) : it was exciting to know that is has some space for pilots fo have food and gym.else fighters are so cramped.

one more thing, no doubt russian fighters are in par with the west, but russians cockpit is nt so much comfortable as the west.

i personally prefer migs and sukhois anydayh anywhere, anytime.

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