Cope India Please Read
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Cope India Please Read
Wednesday, February 7, 2007 (3:52 AM)

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Posted by
Diltz (17)
Edit
Cope India Please Read
Please do not flame me for saying this but when we lost Cope India the F-22 was under a major reduction in size (because Bush spent all our money on Iraq) so it is my opinion that Cope Idia was staged to show congress that we really do need the F-22. Now the Su-27 & Su-30
are suppirior to the F-15C in everything but avionics and even then not by much. If the F-22 had been able to participate I think it would have been drasticly different. At te last Red Flag held at Emendorf AFB Alaska the SAAB Grpen and Euroighter Typhoon both participated as did the F-22 and neither of them could pick it up on their radars (the Eurofighter's is more sophisticated than that of any current Sukhoi or MiG).

Please give me any opinion exept flaming me:)


Posted by
ownageNL (28)
Edit
RE: Cope India Please Read
Posted: February 7, 2007 (5:13 AM)
The raptor is a great plane and yes its stealth does work and has great systems onboard. Performance is great also (supercruise ) but not as manouvrable as a SU.

disadvantage:

-great maintanace costs /time

-The build price of the thing

-8 AA missiles is not much

good plane to have when you have the money, But for that price you can buy 5 to 7 SU for that.


Posted by
Sukhoy (488)
Edit
RE: Cope India Please Read
Posted: February 7, 2007 (7:28 AM)
I want to see Su-35BM vs EF-2000 or MiG-35 vs. EF-2000. I think EF-2000 are not better, but is comparable to russian ones.

Posted by
Diltz (17)
Edit
RE: Cope India Please Read
Posted: February 9, 2007 (10:41 PM)
The only SU that can out maneuver the F-22 is the Su-37 because of it's 3D thrust vectoring. It's maintanace is acually easyer than that of the F-15 / F-16 that it will replace.

Posted by
Diltz (17)
Edit
RE: Cope India Please Read
Posted: February 9, 2007 (10:47 PM)
The only thing the EF-2000 has over the SU is electronics so the SU should have no trouble shooting it down. Both aircraft have HMDs if I'm not mistaken as do newer F-15s do so that should even the score a bit more.

Posted by
Sukhoy (488)
Edit
RE: Cope India Please Read
Posted: February 10, 2007 (7:02 AM)
Give me one link, only one, where F-22 can do the same movements (not better) like Su-30MK or MiG-29 OVT (both 2D TVC).

Posted by
Diltz (17)
Edit
RE: Cope India Please Read
Posted: February 10, 2007 (12:53 PM)
The problem with that is all the test footage has not been released yet and the Thunderbirds havn't transitioned into the F-22 from the F-16. I can tell you that the Raptor can vector it's thrust in the Pitch and Roll axes 20 degrees. It also lighter than the SU with a better thrust to weight ratio than it.

Posted by
Sukhoy (488)
Edit
RE: Cope India Please Read
Posted: February 10, 2007 (1:02 PM)
I saw cobra, was to slow. The ratio you mentioned for me means almost nothing. Why? Because each aircraft use different shapes. Some planes are more aerodynamics than other, so it can have lower ratio thrust/weight.

Posted by
Diltz (17)
Edit
RE: Cope India Please Read
Posted: February 10, 2007 (1:37 PM)
By aerodynamics it sounds like you are talking about Coefficient of Drag or in bullets the Ballistic Coefficient. The higher the number the better (less drag) the F-22s CD is better than any fighter made today (or ever) this is what lets the F-22 "supercruise" at mach 1.5
without afterburners. I saw the video of the "Cobra". If you look at the engine nozzles really colsely they really don't move during that maneuver so the thrust vectoring wasn't really doing anything. That video is not the F-22 pushed to it's limit when there is a video showing that it should look allot like one of the Su-37 videos out there.

Posted by
Foxhoundx13 (5)
Edit
RE: Cope India Please Read
Posted: February 14, 2007 (4:47 AM)
Better Radar?

One forgets the MiG-31 "Foxhound", which can detect stealth airframes.
While not a "fighter" per se, it does have a respectable data-link capacity that is compatable with "Fulcrums" and "Flankers."

Hence the well deserved nickname "Mini-AWACS." You did not mention this jet in specific, yet, the "Better than any MiG or Su" does qualify its entry.

And that statement is debateable with reguards to the latest generation of MiG-29's and Su27/30's.

As far as Aerodynamic coeffiecnt.

An Airframes "cruse" velocity with respect to aerodyanmics, is determined by two sets of curves.

The Raptors turbofans posess the closest ratio of "Full Military" to "Full Afterburner" yet seen.

This is an engineering accomplishment, as well a testament to manufacturing and quality control. As the engine can hold-up under such stress.

As far as a miracle or new definition of physical laws? No.
Not that you have stated this, but, others have hinted.

For the records:
The MiG-29OVT (AKA MiG-35) and the Su-30MKI both have thrust vectoring. A Discovery channel show produced by the USAF and various defense contractors admitted, Russia does have an edge in TVC design.
Which is not to say the US or any other nation cannot produce excellent units.

The Su-30's used in Cope India, were not MK or MKI. In fact they were not even full spec Su-30's.

What were they?
Mod'd two seat Su-27's.

In Cope India. The IAF used mostly latest edition MiG-21bis's. For reasons of clairification I add this.
The "bis" designation is a varient of the French word for second, not, as some "experts" call it "Bison", that label belongs to a 50's/60's soviet bomber.

As far as the Raptor in Cope India?
Right, it would have made a huge difference in the outcome.

Then again so would have 30MKI's and Full spec 30's.

Foxhound


Posted by
Sukhoy (488)
Edit
RE: Cope India Please Read
Posted: February 14, 2007 (5:39 AM)
Right, in 2004, in Cope India USAF did not see at work MKI.

But the ingagements was not very fair. Was not 1 to 1, Su-30 vs. F-15C. In some exercise F-15 was able to fire only from 30Km not from greater range. Other engagements was 3 to 1 in SU-30 favor. That is why Su-30 won with 9 to 1. However, Su-30 is better than F-15.

Su-30MKI was sent in France to take part on exercises there. We don't know the rezsults. Why? I think I know why. The west could'nt win, so they hide the truth (like in most cases).
India in july 2007 will sent some MKI in UK for another exercises.

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