The USA, The F-22. Russia, and China
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The USA, The F-22. Russia, and China
Monday, November 19, 2007 (10:55 AM)

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Posted by
MarlboroManX (48)
Edit
The USA, The F-22. Russia, and China
I've been absent for a very long time because some of the jingoism, and refusal to listen on this board has annoyed the hell out of me. Now I am getting emails from people asking me my opinions of things being said on the board so here we go, the Marlboro Man will give all his opinions.

1. The one that is most pissing me off is the arguments about World War II. Russians and Americans listen to me very closely.
70% of all casualties suffered by the Germans were suffered on the Eastern Front. 86% of all ammunition fired by Soviet Forces was manufactured by the United States. German Tiger Tanks destroyed 8 Russian Tanks for every Tiger lost, but the Soviets built 30.986234 (actual calculations) tanks for every German Tank. The Soviet Tanks were built domestically and the US only contribution to these tanks were some information on the design.

Americans, the Soviet Union carried most of the weight of the war and suffered the most casualties.
Russians and sympathizers: You didn't have a pot to piss in before America lended it to you. During the war the Soviet Union took the "Made in USA" labels off their products and replaced them with "Made in Russia, Made in Ukraine" etc labels. You're doing the same thing.

Both sides need to admit nothing would have happened without the other and get over it.

2. China
China is a regional power, but if it is ever a true world superpower seems unlikely. China has not had a truly competent general since the Three Kingdoms Era in the form of Zhuge Liang and Simi Yi. China's performance against Japan in World War II would embarass me if I were Chinese. China has built up a huge military because they are tired of getting invaded by foreign powers. I don't look to see China ever expand out, but neither do I think anyone is going to be dumb enough to try invading China again. China itself is experiencing growth and wealth like never before, Chinese are not stupid. They are not going to bite the hand that feeds them, nor piss enough another nation powerful enough to make it end even if doing so would be self destructive.

3. The Modern Balance of Power
The Soviet Union is dead, get over it. Say what you want about the US performance in Iraq and Afghanistan. For those of you in Europe can you guess how long the US was in Germany after World War 2? Can't guess, the US IS STILL THERE! Making sure them kraut-eating mother *%^)#$% don't start another war. Twice now the US ate the Iraqi military, which was trained by Russia's finest. And lets not forget that little GPS-scrambler that Russia sold Iraq. I am sure people like Sukhoy know what I am refering to. What happened to that? That's right it was taken out by a GPS-guided 1.000lbs bomb. The US is currently fighting a force against insurgents in a guerilla war. No nation in history has ever done so without taking lossess dispraportionate to the original battlefield engagements. The US military doesn't lose, the US people and the US media give up and force them to come home. It happened in Vietnam once the US finally had the war won, the VC was broken and the North's economy had collapsed. Americans don't have the stomach for war, but I think Germany, Italy, and Japan especially could tell you what happens if you do put that fire into the Americans. (Also this may come as a shock but the majority of US forces are not in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are where they have been sent over the last several decades. Most of the US forces are in the Pacific or in the US as rear bases focused on the Pacific. I'll let you figure out why)
The true Superpowers of the future are the United States, and the European Union. With regional powers being Russia, China, and India. The world only has room for one or two superpowers, when new or reemerging powers rise up to press their influence world wars happen. It happened in both World Wars, and countless regional wars over the years.

4. Debate on the F-22
Those who like Russian aircraft, you can't have it both ways. You can't go around claiming the Su-30 can eat the F-22, then when someone points out an advantage of the F-22 claim its not fair to compare the much newer aircraft.
And for those who are going to be offended by this my apologies in advance. Going back to the days of the Soviet Union the capabilities of Russian Aerospace have always been exagerated. Russian Aerospace exagerates its capabilities to intimidate its opponents. While US Aerospace says little to nothing to keep the other side guessing. Both methods are good, which one is a personal choice.

However for those who keep insisting the F-22 has poor maneuverability I have something for you
http://video.google.com/videoplay

http://video.google.com/videoplay

http://video.google.com/videoplay


Posted by
MarlboroManX (48)
Edit
RE: The USA, The F-22. Russia, and China
Posted: November 19, 2007 (10:56 AM)
Part 2http://video.google.com/videoplay

Notice in several of these videos the F-22 is actually pulling maneuvers on a tighter turn radius than even the Su-35's in the videoes where they are dumping colored smoke. And that the F-22 is doing so with its afterburners. I've never seen a MIG or a SU that could pull a turn in such a tight-radius with afterburners hot. You will also see the 22 pulling some of the same stunt maneuvers such as Cobra, Culbit, and Invero.
But again it remains a moot point because as I've said before which no one seems to listen to The F-22 is not a dogfighter, and will only dogfight if the pilot has screwed up. In so far as the F-22 I won't waste any more breath but rather refer to my previous posts.

On a personal note I truly hope the project for the PAK-FA produces a truly remarkable craft. Perhaps then the Socialists in the US government who want to give all the money to welfare recipiants will wake up and return the F-22, F-35 budget to what it once was.

5. Debate on the AIM-120 vs. R-77
R-77
Maximum Range: 90km (175 km in M1 proposed Variant)
Speed: Mach 4 (5 in M1 proposed Variant)
Maneuverability Envelope: 12g (short range only)
AIM-120
Maximum Range: 105 km C Variant (180km D model entering service 2010)
Speed: Mach 4 (D variant unknown classified)
Maneverability Envelope: Never officially released
Special Capabilities: The only real advantage the AIM-120 has is the ability to switch autonomously from passve to active to passive homing targeting to home in on and destroy anything attempting to jam it. Russia has yet to duplicate this ability (but will given time, and its rumored the next R-77 is being built with this capability)

6. Stealth vs. Plasma Stealth
For those who don't know the base theory of Plasma Stealth lets review its history. It traces back to the space race. Craft returning to the atmosphere are not enshrouded in fire from friction as believed. They are shrouded in plasma by ionization created by the rentry. Plasma is by definition an ionized gas, that is what the term literally means. Now just because its plasma does not mean its thousands or millions of degrees. There are known plasmas that are in gaseous state below the freezing temperature of water. So if the Russians were using plasma stealth it would not necessarily show up on infrared.
The problem however boils down to physics. Plasmas will be either negative or positive as they are ions. While at the same time they remain a gas. This means the aircraft would either have to create a solid pocket of plasma around itself which is impossible as it would never survive wind friction. Or it would need to constantly change the air from normal oxygen-nitrogen-CO2 air as it moved, and break them into into plasmas. The easiest way to do this would be to remove electrons, in which case Russian aircraft would be a good platform as their metal bodies make a good negative conductor. The problem with doing this is that it would show up on any type of EM scanning equipment, and a trail of negative or positive ions would in fact show up on a radar scope. If the body of the aircraft becomes charged with negative ions that combined with a non-linear motion would likely show up better. In the other case its just the first time it was picked up no one would know what the hell the two hundred mile long streak in the sky was. Thus I would have to say that the idea of Plasma Stealth is creative, but unlikely. BTW to pass a radar beam through a plasma field, all you would need to do is match the phase of your radar beam to that of the plasma flow. (See Plasma Physics Wikipedia for explanation of this principle) That could let the pilot use his radar while being stealth, or could let the enemy see through the field. It all depends.

US Stealth works by absorbing and deflecting radar waves away from the source. Its not as exciting but it works rather well. In so far as the F-117 shot down that we all know of there is only two things left our of the argument that are relevant.
1: The F-117 was detected by a radar utilizing very wide band frequencies. This is relevant because it showed poor planning on the US' part rather than a flaw in the stealth. Had the US thought to put more than just F-117's in the sky on the night in question this would not have worked because the presence of these other craft would create such a huge radar signature on these radars it would have obscured the F-117's.
2: One thing a lot of people don't know is the missiles used to down the F-117 had an optional feature added, TV guidance. Coincidence?

7. American Pilots
I've heard a lot of those who like Russian aircraft saying "Americans are bad pilots"
Russians have little penises
Makes the same amount of logic for a generalization doesn't it?
Russian pilots average more time in service than American pilots, but American pilots average a lot more actual flight hours.


Posted by
MarlboroManX (48)
Edit
RE: The USA, The F-22. Russia, and China
Posted: November 19, 2007 (10:57 AM)
Part 3
8. Nuclear Warfare
Nuclear Primacy is changing, Putin realizes that. That is the reason Russia is now pouring money into its military. For those who doubt me do some research about how many missiles Russia and China has. Where they are located, if they are kept fueled or not, and how many have had proper maintenance. I'll leave the rest open for debate.

9. Naval Power
The US navy is built for power projection, the Russia Navy was built for sea-denial. The Russian Navy is a defensive force, US Navy an offensive force. Russians have some very nice ASMs, US has RAMs. In a naval war Russia still suffers from the fact it is outnumbered in terms of ships and aircraft.

10. Information War
I don't care if you like me saying it or not, Russia as it is today cannot and will not win a conventional war fought against the United States. But what Russia can win is an Information War. Russia has never been the best at producing hardware, but Russia has some phenominal software capabilities. In a war between the US and Russia the key to a russian victory would not be in nukes, planes, tanks, or bombs. It would be in Russian Hackers bringing down the US infrastructure. (Research what I said about currently nuclear primacy to see why I left the obvious nuclear armageddon answer to this question out)

11. US versus China
The US has China outweighed in most every department in terms of technology. However China if it had to could put 200 million men under arms. The first rule one learns in any war college is that evenly matched forces do not fight. China has to much to lose including its economy by fighting the US. US may buy everything but China, but anyone will take US money. What is China to do with its facotiries without American greed? My only worry about China is the current state of farm affairs and fresh water going on. Those who've spent some time around China know what I am refering to, the problem their government isnt talking about.
Now lets say everything went to hill and the two countries did go to war what would happen?
A new Sitzkrieg (no its not a type-O look it up if you don't know what Sitzkrieg refers to). After the first few days of combat not a lot would happen. China lacks the ablity to project its power the way the US does, and the US has no means to invade a country with a population that large.

12. Russia and China
Russia and China are not friends, they are business partners there is a difference. To this day China holds that Siberia was stolen from them by Russia, and consider themselves to have a right to Siberia (amongst other things) as part of the Greater China. This inbound Chinese hostility of Russia is why I have criticized Russia for selling arms to China in the past. At least to me such a relationship does not make sense. But it would be a mistake for Russia (or China) to assume the other would help them in a time of conflict.

13. Tu-160 vs. B-1
I still hold firm the Tu-160 would not exist without the B-1, and I highly doubt the Russian claims that the 160 is stealthier. However given its job I still say the Tu-160 is the better aircraft, score one for Russian Aerospace in this regard.

14. Thrust Vectoring vs. Forward Canards
If you really understand aerodynamics you know why you don't really see both on the same aircraft. Its the same lesson the US knew and the one the Russians have learned in the last decade or so. If you have one already the other is more or less superfulous.

15. The True Weakness of the US.
The true weakness of the US? I will tell you. There are to many Americans who's only concern in life is to have money in their pocket, food in their mouth, someone in their bed, and a game to watch on sunday, and if they have that everything else can go to hell. That is the mentality that brings Socialists to power, now I don't claim that US Democrats and Liberals are the same as Soviet Socialists. The key difference is that Soviet Socialists had the stomach for a fight, American liberals do not. And they have not since the world wars (though one must realize the Democrats of the 30's and 40's were more like the Republicans of today than the Democrats of today) The true weakness of the United States is in finicky leaders who arent willing to do things the hard way and see a fight through, its not in the US military.

16. The True Weakness of Russia
Russia has had a bit of an inferiority complex since it emerged as the heir of the Soviet Union. I can see that same attitude in several on this board from former Soviet States. Concentrate more on thine own future than on the glories of times past, and Russia can once again be one of the true world leaders.

17. The True Weakness of China
Techonological Gaps, and dependance on foreign (namely Russian and US) technologies. Although who knows, China could be playiing both for fools.

18. The state of affairs in the world to come.
Major wars happen when new powers emerge, or when old powers remerge.
If one wants to see who the co


Posted by
MarlboroManX (48)
Edit
RE: The USA, The F-22. Russia, and China
Posted: November 19, 2007 (10:58 AM)
Part 4
18. The state of affairs in the world to come.
Major wars happen when new powers emerge, or when old powers remerge.
If one wants to see who the competitors will be in a new world war should it ever happen these are the major powers who will decide it.
United States of America
European Union/NATO affiliates
Russian Federation and Block Allies
China

Realistically reading history the most likely conflicts are EU vs. Russia, or even China versus Russia. Why China vs. Russia I'll explain in a different posting if asked.

19. Anti-Americanism
Take a number and get in line, or try something original. Either way there are plenty of negative things that can be said about most of the countries who's people post here. If you think I've been scathing so far, try me. Grow up and argue about something besides who can piss further or in greater quantity. No country is perfect (that includes US) and some of the people from the US who are on here need to realize the world has changed. At one time the US lead the world in early every category, but that has not been the case for some time. No country is best at everything, and if it does become so it doesnt stay that was for long. Find something else to argue about. And if you find yourself in a position where all you can do is bash the US go to some more research and come back. (Same goes for vice versa)

20. Closing
I will stand on what I have said here as well as posts I have made in the past as researched and documented. While the balance of power in the world is changing there is a reason it is the way it has been.


Posted by
truthlover (5)
Edit
RE: The USA, The F-22. Russia, and China
Posted: November 21, 2007 (5:28 PM)
"This inbound Chinese hostility of Russia is why I have criticized Russia for selling arms to China in the past "

What? American critized Russia for selling arms to China NOT because they were worried about Russia but for themselves in case of the war with China in Taiwan strait. Americans never ever don't care about Russia being threatened by other countries. The only reason why they critized Russia for selling arms to China is that they don't want to be killed by the Chinese with RUssian advanced weapons. Am I right?


Posted by
MarlboroManX (48)
Edit
RE: The USA, The F-22. Russia, and China
Posted: November 21, 2007 (5:31 PM)
Have you ever been to China friend? Chinese dont like russians anymore than russians like americans. Business partners not friends

Posted by
truthlover (5)
Edit
RE: The USA, The F-22. Russia, and China
Posted: November 21, 2007 (5:42 PM)
I am not saying whether the CHinese like us or not.

THE ONLY REASON WHY AMERICANS CRITICIZED RUSSIANS FOR SELLING ARMS TO CHINA IS THAT AMERICANS WERE AFRAID OF BEING KILLED BY THE CHINESE WITH RUSSIAN WEAPONS IN THE POSSIBLE WAR.

Why? You think CHinese people like Americans if they don't like us?


Posted by
MarlboroManX (48)
Edit
RE: The USA, The F-22. Russia, and China
Posted: November 21, 2007 (5:42 PM)
And by the way I said that's why I, have criticized Russia I didnt say anyting about the US. But its folly to believe that China would be there to help Russia in war, more likely China would be looking at a chance to take back Siberia.

Business partners.not friends.


Posted by
truthlover (5)
Edit
RE: The USA, The F-22. Russia, and China
Posted: November 21, 2007 (5:46 PM)
"Business partners.not friends"

Ofcourse. Chinese and Americans are business partners. not friends either.


Posted by
MarlboroManX (48)
Edit
RE: The USA, The F-22. Russia, and China
Posted: November 21, 2007 (5:53 PM)
And you're still not getting my point, I am not speaking on behalf of the US for criticizing Russia on selling arms to China. Russia has a right to sell arms to whomever it wishes just as the US does.

However selling them to China to me proves Russians are indeed not smarter than americans as they so claim.

US sells technology to Israel knowing it will eventually end up in Chinese hands. (Harpy Drones, LAVI)

Russia sells it directly.

In the end China could be thought of as playing both nations for fools.

P.S. And the only thing China likes about America is its greed and the dollars it brings.


Posted by
truthlover (5)
Edit
RE: The USA, The F-22. Russia, and China
Posted: November 21, 2007 (6:09 PM)
OK! I don't want to say who is smarter. How about Iraq war?

do you know that American government and American soldiers' lives in today's Iraq are being manipulated by Israel for the benefits of Zionist state?

America's Media and Finance are controlled by Jews. They take advantage of your people lives for the sake of Israel. I hope such a smarter guy like you has known this issue. humm?

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