The USA, The F-22. Russia, and China
Home
Book a Flight
Flight Prices
Special Offers!
Price Guarantee
Price a Flight
- Order Process
Calendar
Zero-G Flights
Gift Certificates
Hotels
Spb. Hotels

Why FlyMiG.Com?
Aircraft
In the Media
Contact Us
Questions
Flight Stories
About Us
MAKS 2003
MAKS 2005
Updates

Avia X-change
Aviation Forum
Cool Stuff
Affiliates
Mail Lists
iPod
PostCards
Search
Links
Aviation Books
Videos
Wallpaper



 Russian Visa online


RC Clubs
Code your Mac
Manuals
 
Main Forum Page | Start new Thread | Edit your AD | Search Forum

The USA, The F-22. Russia, and China
Monday, November 19, 2007 (10:55 AM)

Reply to this threadRSS Feed...Previous   1 | 2 | 3

Posted by
JuniorKilat (26)
Edit
Is the USA still the world's Economic Monster and World's Super Power?
Posted: April 21, 2008 (4:55 AM)
How does the USA became the World's Economic Monster and Militarily superior?

Posted by
MarlboroManX (48)
Edit
RE: The USA, The F-22. Russia, and China
Posted: April 21, 2008 (5:12 AM)
About what Sukhoy said

The Su's aren't using afterburners in the maneuvers because they aren't capable of pulling maneuvers in a radius that small with the power of an afterburner at their back. The fact the F-22 can speaks to its maneuverability. Remember the more power you have the harder it is to make tight maneuvers, not the other way around. This is why aircraft in a dogfight constantly slow as they descend with the aircraft able to maintain the higher speed in its maneuvering envelope often wins.

Also you can all say all you like about Chinas economy passing up that of the US. Its kind of hard for them to do so when the US is what supports their economy.


Posted by
Malevolence (1)
Edit
RE: The USA, The F-22. Russia, and China
Posted: June 15, 2008 (4:51 PM)
You know I've been reading this now for a while. I'm going to respond to this hoopla about Zionists and Israel, Jews and Iraq. I'm American, and damn proud too. I live in New England, just outside of Boston where the entire Idea for the country started. I know allot about my country, and I can explain Iraq simply with 2 points.

The first and most important is Influence. America has long wanted influence in that area of the world. Oil and a presence in an area of the world that hates us (and rightfully so) for our meddling in their affairs.
Lets face it we stuck our noses where it didn't belong and it got bloodied. As The Marlboro Man stated previously when the U.S. invades a country we stay there. We set up bases and continue to have a presence. Japan, South Korea, Germany, etc. All these places have American bases to this day.
Once Iraq has been "pacified" there will be permanent U.S. bases set up there. The truth of the matter is American soldiers will never "leave" Iraq. The 7th Armored division now has a home in the Middle East. A Home that borders Iran, Syria and Jordan. A new home rich in oil and I have no doubt big Texas oil companies will be setting up to export at peak proficiency at a greatly reduced price to the U.S. people. I'm not saying weather its right, or wrong, just what is, and what is is Influence.
The second point, El Presidentey Bush went and finished dad's work. Hussein made George Bush Sr. look like a moron. Jr. just had the means and the excuses necessary to actually pull it off.

Mixed together you have a strong base of influence in a U.S. hostile part of the world(due to their own screw ups) and revenge for good ol' dad, seeing the guy who made him look like a limp noodle, hang on a You Tube video.
Folks, it has nothing to do with Zionists nations, Jews, the bogeyman or David Hasselhoff. Influence and revenge. Sometimes the answer is so simple its right in front of you.


Posted by
DonQuixote (1)
Edit
RE: The USA, The F-22. Russia, and China
Posted: December 17, 2008 (11:04 AM)
It�s important to place the usefulness of any weapons system into an operational frame. The supremacy of the Me 262 for instance over the La 5 is without doubt. One on one and without external economic, geographic, etc. factors the Me 262 would likely achieve well over 10:1 kill ratio, but that�s not what happened.

Therefore, there are two primary scenarios to focus on in this debate:

1. Regional conflict with Russian client state using some export variants of the Su-30MK, older examples of Mig 29, 27, 25, etc. with limited support resources and incomplete elements of integrated air defense.

2. Conflict with Russia or major power using Russian weaponry (ex. China).

In the first case the competitiveness of the F-22 is not in question whether it be against Su-37 or PAK FA. The reasons for this go beyond the characteristics of the F-22. The American military forces fight as an integrated whole:
�    Satellite reconnaissance would identify air defense, airbases and other strategic sites.
�    Cruise missiles would hit as many of those as possible leaving large gaps in the air defense net and a scramble to regain situational awareness.
�    Cruise missiles would likely destroy many aircraft on the ground.
�    Scrambling aircraft would likely find the initial air assault wave already on top of them. Those already airborne would be outnumbered and lack guidance to target � even if radars in theatre could detect the F-22 or other stealth craft, most of those will have been destroyed and replacements not available on short notice.
�    End result: Petty dictator deposed, chaos and panic in the enemy ranks, throngs of adoring peasants welcoming Americans as liberators.

Second scenario - not so simple. Firstly, let�s make a bold assumption: the conflict will be fought on either Russian or �other major power�s� soil. There are two reasons for this � one is deployment capability: neither the Russians nor any other major power have the capability to deploy a force to the American continent. Without massive and obvious mobilization there is no chance of it within the next 5 years. The second reason is historic foreign policy � most nation�s national defense goals focus on national defense. Foreign adventures across the ocean are not on any other nation�s agenda and haven�t been since the Japanese Empire. (Well � there was the Falkland Islands war�)
So here, I put to you, is the likely sequence of events:
-    Months of tension followed by an arms buildup on a regional border.
-    While aforementioned petty dictator was likely isolated and friendless in the region with multiple nations willing to host US bases around him in exchange for a piece of the spoils/not invading them � Russia or �other major power� will likely have multiple allies or at least a limited number of nations willing to risk a US base on their territory. Point being � there will be a front, limiting the axis of attack.
-    Just prior to or just following the initial act of war, American satellites (GPS, spy, coms) will be shot down or disabled. While the opposing satellites will also suffer the same fate, this will be the incredibly debilitating for the US forces especially. Much of the US forces are entirely dependant on GPS for navigation to the point that they are simply not capable of navigating with map and compass. JDAM and cruise missiles will be useless.
-    F-22 pilots over foreign territory will be better qualified to revert to map navigation (I assume that because all pilots are trained on how to navigate by landmarks) � but will likely not be especially combat capable in that mode, spending most of their time �head-down�.
-    The US datalink network will be restricted to line of sight only.
-    US forward radar stations will be attacked, AWACS aircraft will be shot down or pushed outside effective zone with long range missiles � a Russian advantage. Point being � at least one member of an F-22 flight has to turn on its radar, giving away the flights position and attracting lots of SAM activity.
-    Depending on integration � typical methods of suppressing air defense may not work. Systems like Arena or derivatives protecting missile batteries and radars would mean that using the HARM is no longer an option � AAA kills would have to be scored with guns or rocket salvos.
-    Opposing pilots would enjoy the advantage of knowing the terrain and being able to return to action after ejection (the main reason the RAF won the Battle of Britain).
-    Without an easy and guaranteed BVR kill, F-22s would frequently find themselves in outnumbered hairballs with aircraft of comparable if not superior maneuverability and battle hardened pilots against an increasingly green US pilot cadre. Even with a 5:1 kill ratio (unlikely, possibly reversed), the expense and complexity or replacing both the F-22 and a qualified pilot would mean the other side would win the attrition war.
-     And we haven�t even introduced tactical nukes into the equation, which complicates matters for both sides�


Posted by
MarlboroManX (48)
Edit
RE: The USA, The F-22. Russia, and China
Posted: December 17, 2008 (5:17 PM)
You make some good points Don but I have to disagree with you on a few of them.

1. F-22's AESA Radar was designed and built with rapid frequency exchange rate, even with its radar on in full attack mode locating the aircraft by passively scanning on its radar will still be very difficult.

2. Despite what Russia and China claim, neither has a missile system that has proven capable of striking the US's high air reacon birds, as well as several of the military-specific GPS systems. "But China shot down a sattelite with this"
Yeah I know, but there is a big difference in altitude of orbit between the two systems. Just because you could hit the ISS with a missile doesn't mean you'll hit a bird in orbit well above it.

3. The missile range advantage russians enjoy against American aircraft is severely diminished in facing an F-22. Not only is the new much longer range AIM-120D starting production, but the sheer altitude and supercruise speed factor of the F-22 imparts a much greater lethal distance to any missile fired by the F-22 versus a legacy airframe.

4. SAM Missile defense systems are still going to suffer heavy attrition not only from HARM, and Cruise Missiles, but from deployed Special Forces teams.

5. Not a disagreement but a relevant point, a severe inexperience issue is going to come into effect on the side of Russia. Now don't get me wrong, Russia has a strong professional military but it is a little out of practice so to speak in so far as live fire engagement.

6. The US will not be crippled nearly as bad as people think even if something did happen to the GPS, and here is why. 1 There are plenty of armament systems that are more than capable of the job that don't require GPS. 2. In all MOS's and all branches and at all levels the US armed forces has a healthy supply of one thing, Boy Scouts of America's Eagle Scouts. Every Eagle Scout knows how to orient a map, and they are more plentiful in the service than people think.

7. Russia still lags considerably behind the United States in Electronic Warfare capability. Even in the nightmare scenario you have mentioned this will be a severely limiting factor to the capability of the Russians.

That's about it for now. Now I know some people are thinking it, but I am not saying the US would come in and just wipe the floor with the Russians over their own territory, not saying that at all. Just pointing out my disagreements on this post. I do still however hold the US would win a conventional war (depending on who controls Congress and who the President is) if it determiend to see it through tot he end. It would however be a costly endeavor for a very fickle nation.


Posted by
Sukhoy (488)
Edit
RE: The USA, The F-22. Russia, and China
Posted: January 23, 2009 (6:14 AM)
I am pretty agree with you, but:

yes, even Russia have some better hardware than any other, they probably don't produced them at large scale, due to lake of money.
Example? T-90 (I think is slightly better than M1A2), S-300MPU1-2-3, SKVAL missiles, Iskander missiles etc. So Russia will loose.

Russia, like USA have nuks. So, even Russia, or USA come close to a victory by conventional war, both country will "die" on nuks war. Nobody can prevent such an attack.


Posted by
aliseps2 (5)
Edit
RE: The USA, The F-22. Russia, and China
Posted: February 27, 2009 (11:35 AM)
truthlover you are a bit psycho! or at least dreamy.
hahahahah
the USA is controlled by its people. the only real democracy in the world. the country of God. the country of survivor.
Reply to this threadRSS Feed...Previous   1 | 2 | 3

Main Forum Page | Start new Thread | Edit your AD | Search Forum

Home | Book a Flight | Flight Prices | Special Offers! | Price Guarantee | Price a Flight | - Order Process | Calendar | Zero-G Flights | Gift Certificates | Hotels | Spb. Hotels

Why FlyMiG.Com? | Aircraft | In the Media | Contact Us | Questions | Flight Stories | About Us | MAKS 2003 | MAKS 2005 | Updates

Avia X-change | Aviation Forum | Cool Stuff | Affiliates | Mail Lists | iPod | PostCards | Search | Links | Pilots

Del.icio.usDiggYahoo.RedditSlashDotTechnoratiTwitterBlinkListConnoteaFaceBookFurlGoogle.NewsVinePropeller.StumbleUponWindows Live


Honda CRX Si | Manuals |
   Copyright © FlyMiG.Com™ 2002 - 2024